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Post Info TOPIC: The Proto-Gospel of James


Mighty Morphin Prayer Warrior

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The Proto-Gospel of James


Has anyone read The Proto-Gospel of James?  I thought it was very interesting and it raised some questions.  It's in my Lost Scriptures book, which I am still reading.  But before I get to those questions, here is an opening summary about The Proto-Gospel of James prior to reading it taken from the Lost Scriptures book:
 
This book is sometimes called a "Proto-Gospel" because it narrates events that took place prior to Jesus' birth(although it includes an account of the birth as well.)  The ancient manuscripts that preserve the book have different titles, including, "The Birth of Mar," "The Story of the Birth of Saint Mary, Mother of God," and "The Birth of Mary; The Revelation of James."  It's author claims to be James, usually understood to be Jesus' (half-) brother known from the New Testament (e.g., Mark 6; Galatians 1).  Here he is assumed to be Joseph's son by a previous marriage. 
 
Focusing its attention on Jesus' mother, Mary, the book provides legendary accounts of (a) her miraculous birth to the wealthy Jew, Joachim, and his wife Anna; (b) her sanctified upbringing in the Jerusalem Temple; (c) her marriage as a twelve-year old to Joseph, an old widower miraculously chosen to be her husband; (d) her supernatural conception of Jesus through the Spirit; and (e) the birth of Jesus in a cave outside of Bethlehem.  Parts of the book rely heavily on the infancy narratives of Matthew and Luke, but with numerous intriguing expansions, including legendary reports of Joseph's previous marriage and grown sons, Mary's work as a seamstress for the curtain in the temple, and the supernatural events that transpired at the birth of Jesus, including a first-hand narrative told by Joseph of how time stood still when the Son of God appeared in the world.  In one of the most striking of its narratives we are told that an originally unbelieving midwife performed a postpartum inspection of Mary to be assured of her virginity.
 
Since the book was already known to the church father Origen in the early third century, and probably to Clement of Alexandria at the end of the second, it must have been in circulation soon after 150 CE. (Yes, it's CE, that's what the book said).  The book was enormously popular in later centuries, and played a significant role in pictorial art of the Middle Ages. 
 
So, here are my questions:
How was Mary anyway when she married Joseph?  Was she really 12?
 
Was Jesus really born in a cave or in a manger like it says in the bible?  There is some articles on the internet that suggest he was born in a cave.
 
http://www.cptryon.org/compassion/win99/beth2.html
 
http://www.rejesus.co.uk/spirituality/nativity/jesus.html
 
Thoughts?  Thoughts!?
 
Steve

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Lamentation 3:24 The Lord is all I have, and so in him I put my hope.


Why can't my life be more like the Ainulindalė?

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Here are some questions:

Do we all have something existing inside us called "original sin?" What exactly is it?
Is it only passed down through our fathers? Why not our mothers?
Did Jesus have to be conceived by God rather than Joseph to avoid this original sin?
Was Mary somehow "too impure" to bear Jesus without also being immaculately-conceived?
So assuming Mary's mother miraculously conceived Mary-- doesn't that make Mary the "daughter of God" in the same way Jesus is his son? Why not?
If Jesus had to be immaculately-conceived, but Mary wasn't pure enough to conceive immaculately without also being immaculately-conceived, why was Mary's mother able to do it?
Perhaps Mary's mother also had to be immaculately-conceived? What about her grandmother?

All of this seems a little silly to me. Mary stood apart- she found favor with God somehow, but she was not a goddess herself.

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Why can't my life be more like the Ainulindalė?

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Sorry! I didn't even talk about your questions.


Krypto wrote:

So, here are my questions:
How was Mary anyway when she married Joseph?  Was she really 12?
 
Was Jesus really born in a cave or in a manger like it says in the bible?  There is some articles on the internet that suggest he was born in a cave.


Hmm.... Yeah, I find it hard to believe that Joseph was "previously married." He and Mary were betrothed! Which would mean they had always been intended for each other, and there wouldn't have been a "previous marriage" to generate James.

I do believe James was Jesus' brother-- I just believe he was Jesus' younger brother. This kind of causes problems for people who like to pretend that Mary was a virgin for her entire life, so perhaps they made up the story of Joseph's "previous marriage" to explain the existence of Jesus' siblings.

About the "cave vs. manger" thing-- the manger was just the feeding trough. Since many times caves were actually used as stables, there may have been a manger inside the stable-cave in question. So it's not really an either-or situation.

-- Edited by Chris at 12:57, 2006-06-11

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"I'd place myself... oh... somewhere between Galadriel and Peter Griffin."


Mighty Morphin Prayer Warrior

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Chris wrote:


All of this seems a little silly to me. 



My questions are silly? 


Steve


P.S. Whatever.



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Lamentation 3:24 The Lord is all I have, and so in him I put my hope.


Defender of Truth, Justice and the American GAY!

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I believe that Jesus probably was born in a cave because shepherds in that area for centuries have used caves around Bethlehem for stables to keep their sheep in and out of the elements. Also, since Jesus came out of a tomb, another kind of "cave", when he was resurrected, then why not come into the world in one?


However, about the "immaculate conception" of Mary...I don't believe it. Mary didn't have to be "sinless" in order to give birth to Jesus. That is more of the "church dogma" that has no foundation within the doctrines of Paul and Peter.



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Defender of Truth, Justice and the American GAY!

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I don't think that your questions are silly, Steve. How else are you going to get any answers? I don't think that there are any silly questions!


Except maybe, "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" (I think I got my fingers tied into a KNOT trying to type this one down! )



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Why can't my life be more like the Ainulindalė?

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Obviously I wasn't talking about your questions being silly, since in my second post I said something like "Oh! I'm sorry I didn't even address your questions."

What I find silly is all this "history" about Mary's immaculate conception, her neverending virginity etc., not you Steve.

...P.S.
Whatever.

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Defender of Truth, Justice and the American GAY!

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Actually, the CORRECT gay "valley-girl" translation is: "WHAT-EVAH!"

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