From the www.umc.org website,

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On 3/22/2006 4:30:36 PM bill_chatfield@yahoo.com wrote:

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Warning someone of the danger of their sin is not hate.  There is no hate in it.  I believe homosexuality is sinful, but I do not hate you.  You're labeling it as hate so that those who would tell you things you don't like will look hateful and hopefully they will be compelled to stop.

Of course there is the type of person who believes that it is right to hate homosexuals because they believe that God hates them.  I've read their rhetoric.  It is the work of Satan.  Our church ought to speak against these groups.  They misrepresent Christ.

Please don't mistake me for someone who advocates hate or oppression of any kind.  On the contrary I am very concerned about you.  I wish I could believe that homosexuality is acceptable to God, because my heart is broken by your situation, but the Bible and my conscience tells me that homosexuality is sin.  My experience tells me that it is sin.  My reason tells me that it is sin.  God created a man and a woman with the correct parts to join them together as one.  People of the same sex are not designed by God to have parts that join together.

Out of my love and concern for you, I am compelled by God, who holds us accountable to warn others, to tell you that I believe that homosexuals are putting themselves in great danger by justifying their sin instead of repenting from it.

If you choose not to listen to my warning, then that is up to you.  The issue is between you and God.  I have done what God requires me to do by warning you.

Even though I don't agree with you, I would welcome you into my church because I would not want you to ever be shut out from a Christian environment.  I would accept you with love as my brother.  Every person needs to experience the love of Christ and find a place to grow in their faith.

I know it is often hard to tell the difference between those who hate and those speak warnings out of love and concern for your well being.  Unfortunately it often feels like the same thing on the receiving end.  And in this world I'm sure you have experienced a lot of hate so as to be, rightly, sensitive to it.  But, I'm telling you, sincerely, that I disagree with you, but I don't hate you and I don't speak words of hate.  They are words of concern and warning.

My heart is truly broken by this conflict.  I agonize over it, about how to bring it to some conclusion that everyone can be happy with.  I feel the pain if inflicts on both sides and it feels like a knife in my heart.  I want us all to exchange words of love instead of words of conflict.  But, God will not have us compromise on his word.  I have to stand firm on what God said.  I can't deny God to agree with what you want me to agree with.  The best I can do is offer you my love, compassion, and my hand as your brother, in spite of the fact that we disagree.  I am able to do that because I realize that my understanding is not as complete and perfect as God's is.  I am just a humble child of God and my judgment doesn't count for anything.  I hope that when we all get to heaven that we will find out that you were right because I don't want anyone to be condemned.  My hope is that God will pardon all those who love his Son even if they behaved according to what they falsely believed was true, whether that be you or me.  Until then I'm happy to agree to live together as brothers in Christ.

I would stand with you, against any group that truly advocates hate, violence or oppression of any kind.  Hate, violence, and oppression are evil and I stand with God, against any evil.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but my feeling is that most people here that disagree with you do so out of love, concern, and fear for your soul, not out of hate.  I imagine some people are also a little agitated that you are trying to convince other people that what is labeled as sin in the Bible is not sin.  You are therefore trying to lead people into the sin of homosexuality by making into something that is acceptable.

What do you think would happen if someone came to us and tried to convince us that adultery was not really sin, that God gave the law against it only because of the cultural context the Israelites lived in?  How do you think Christians would react to someone actively trying to convince other people that adultery is an activity that God loves?  Of course they're going to react with agitation and frustration because that basically amounts to teaching heresy, which God commands us to fight against, which is what we’re doing, but you call it hate.

I'm going to remove myself from this discussion and any like it that may start.  I need to recover from the agony I feel when I simply repeat what God said in the Bible because I know I'm offending people by standing with God and reiterating what he said.  I feel like simply repeating what God said in the Bible is seen as hate.  If I were simply to post Romans 1:27 in a message by itself, simply the words that God inspired Paul to write and that are in all of our Bibles, that it would be seen as hate.  If the word of God is seen as hate here then it is time to close this church because it no long serves Christ.  It serves its own desires of the flesh. 

I also fear that people such as myself, may be removed from this board for repeating God’s words and his warnings, because God’s word is seen as hate.  Isn't that a situation of true irony, where the word of God is suppressed in favor of idolatrous human “wisdom” and the desires of the flesh, even in Christ’s own church.

I pray that God's love will remain with all of you.


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Bill, Again this is a very loving response.  I appreciate that.

When I first came out I had intense anger towards the church.  My own mother disowned me because of what she was taught... exactly the same stuff you are bringing up, Bill.

I am not foreign to the church or to Christianity.  I grew up attending church & church functions probably at least three times a week.  As I got older and became more committed & involved, I was at church all the time.

I've been on worship teams, I've led bible studies, I've been on missions trips, I've led & been a part of numerous church ministries.

I went to Bible school and then to Oral Roberts University.

I know the Bible inside and out.  I love God with all that I have.  I absolutely love praise and worship.  I feel an intense & compelling call to the ministry... to bring God's love to people.

And I am gay.

I have always been gay.  When I was a toddler, my mom's sisters would tease her because I was acting like such a cute little "princess."  I would be caught often walking around church or a restaurant with some random woman's purse.  (I've since given up that habit.)

I knew I was gay from as young as I can remember.  And I knew the church's teaching.  I knew what would happen to me if they found out.  I sometimes wonder if I was subconsciously being super-involved in order to prove myself to them... to be accepted in the church and in my family, even if I was gay.  My fears were very well founded.

After coming out, I no longer existed to people at my church.  There wasn't any outright condemnation... just a stark and cold difference in the way I was treated.  I wasn't welcome in ministry roles.  People would hold their children a little closer as I walked by.

My own mother said she didn't want to talk to me again.  She didn't want me talking to my family, especially my younger brothers.  She said she wouldn't help me financially through college.  She said I was no longer welcome at home.

And you wonder why I have a problem with the condemnation of homosexuality?  It destroys people.  It destroys families.  It is absolutely, without any doubt, NOT from God.

I used to be so angry with my mother and my church.  I could rip her to shreds with my words and feel no guilt.

Then, one of my brothers died.  He was also gay, about a year and a half younger than me.  The only person I felt connected to in the world at that time.

I can't begin to describe the trauma, the sense of aloneness I felt.  I had begun to believe the message of my mother and my church... that God didn't love me.  And now I was left in the world with nothing and no one.

My life was pretty bad for a few years.  I had little integrity.  I was partying & drinking too much.  I was being promiscuous.

Let me be clear.  I was then and am now entirely responsible for my own actions.  The problem is that I was a kid when I was going through all this.  I can't imagine enduring it as an adult with the self-development and training I've had now... but to endure the abuse as a child.  I am so thankful I wasn't more out of control.

What changed for me... about 3 years ago I was driving to Dallas and I heard the song "I can only imagine" on the radio.  I instantly got this image of my brother in the loving presence of Jesus.  I was bawling and had to pull over.

At that point, I knew I had to start forgiving people in my church & family.  I knew that I was blaming all of them for my life and my actions.  I knew that I had let myself start to believe their ideas about God.  I decided to get my spiritual life back on track.

It took baby steps.  I was desparate for a place to worship God the way I used to... and to be safe.  I finally found MCC Austin.

I already knew God did not condemn me for being gay.  I resolved those questions around 13 years of age.  But I wasn't strong enough to be around people who would condemn me.

Since that time, my life has transformed.  I absolutely love my life.  Even my mother and I get along... most of the time.  I'm successful.  I'm currently preparing to go to seminary to answer the call of full time ministry.

I have become more and more compassionate as time goes by.  And Bill, I do have compassion for you.  I think you're still attached to incorrect ideas about God, but I don't blame you for it.  I hear you wrestling with what you know in your heart and what the church has told you.

My prayer is that you will be led by peace and by love.

The peace of God that passes understanding.  And the love of God that is without condition.

Blessings,
Nate