This is a short version of what the will of God is to me:
John 6: 38 - 40 That the Lord should lose nothing, but raise up all who believe on him at the last day.
1 Thessalonians 5: 18 In everything give thanks. Even the bad things for we know that Romans 8:28 says "all" things shall work towards the good for those who love God and are the called according to his purpose.
That's the short version of what I believe without going into the deeper spiritual things for time's sake as I gotta go. I hope it helps start a discussion. May God bless, Tiff
What is your understanding of the will of God? I understand it as something that is best for me that I don't necessarily want or would do or have chosen for myself.
How do you determine God's will for your life? Its easy because whenver I feel resistant to doing something I do not want to that I know is probably best, then I can feel God telling me "You'll feel better once you get through it." And my response is usually "I don't wanna!"
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Lamentation 3:24 The Lord is all I have, and so in him I put my hope.
Do you think God's will is always something against what we want to do?
And, do you think there is only one will of God? For example, if you were trying to choose between two really good jobs, would one be the will of God & the other not His will? If so, what would happen if you chose the wrong one?
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Grace is the acceptance of that which is rejected. ~Paul Tillich
Do you think God's will is always something against what we want to do? I think it usually is. Not in a rebelious was, but like in a "I don't wanna" kind of way. Remember in Joan of Arcadia, Joan was always like Oh God, I really don't want to do that, but she never rebeled and refused.
And, do you think there is only one will of God? One Will with many purposes. Does that make sense? Like having one ultimate plan, but with many daily plans.
If so, what would happen if you chose the wrong one? I think if we knownly choose the wrong one, we should expect to face consequences. If we unknownly choose the wrong one, then we take it as a learning experience and helps us to listen to our heart better. However, whether we choose the wrong one purposely or by mistake, God never leaves us.
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Lamentation 3:24 The Lord is all I have, and so in him I put my hope.
If you're wondering if God has two wills, the answer is YES!
God has a DIVINE will that is what God wants for everybody: to love Him and love one another.
And a INDIVIDUAL will that is what God has planned for the individual child of His: calling to the ministry, becoming a missionary, stuff like that.
But if you're wondering if God will "force" you to choose a path that you don't like, he doesn't. He, through the power of the Holy Spirit, prepares the Christian for this path by changing his/her heart and prepares it for the work that will be coming with it.
If you're afraid of choosing the wrong path for your life, just remember that the Holy Spirit within you will convict you if you choose the wrong one, not with misfortune, but by showing you BEFOREHAND what the outcome of your HEART will be at the end of that path...which will be a definite DEAD END to your soul.
This is interesting discussion. Jeffrey, explain some more about the Holy Spirit convicting us when we choose the wrong path. What if we DO choose the wrong path? Are you saying God punishes us?
Do you think God ever just blesses the choices we make, if we make them for the right reasons? For instance, if we truly believe choice A is God's will, but if we are wrong, will we face consequences?
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Grace is the acceptance of that which is rejected. ~Paul Tillich
When we are faced with a choice, the Holy Spirit shows us the right way by (1) reminding us what God's word might say about the problem, and (2) giving us a sense of peace about which choice is the right one BEFORE we choose.
God doesn't punish us if we do make the wrong choice, per se, but He does, through the power of the Holy Spirit, convict our hearts about our decision and we feel His grief about the bad choice we've made. Take, for example, Jonah's decision to run away from God's will to preach repentance to Nineveh. God brought up a storm that made the ship's crew cast Jonah into the sea. Then God created a "fish" (some say a whale) to swallow him up to keep him from drowning. While he was in its belly, Jonah saw the error of disobeying God's will and the Lord caused the creature to throw him back up onto dry land.
But even then, Jonah still hadn't learned his lesson...
After causing the greatest revival in the entire Old Testament, Jonah went outside the city of Nineveh in the hopes that God would STILL destroy the city that had caused so much trouble to his beloved Israel. But God instead caused a vine to rise and shade Jonah in the hot sun...and then He killed it. When Jonah got so mad about the vine's death that he wished to die, God asked him that wasn't the lives of the people of Nineveh more important than the life of the plant? Jonah then saw that he was self-centered in his choices and forgot what the job of a prophet was REALLY supposed to have been: preaching to everyone, including to those that hate us, about God's love and mercy.
Do you think God ever just blesses the choices we make, if we make them for the right reasons? For instance, if we truly believe choice A is God's will, but if we are wrong, will we face consequences?
Look at the 9/11 terrorists: they truly believed, with all of their heart, that they were doing God's will that terrible morning. Even though God, through their consciences, SCREAMED at them to NOT do this horrible deed, they continued to do so, believing that Bin Laden was more "in tune" with God's will than even God Himself was. Or look at Fred Phelps' little grandbaby on YouTube, barely old enough to talk correctly, singing about how "God hates the world" and how us "fags are gonna burn". She's sincere in her beliefs, as much as a little girl can believe...and will probably ACT on those beliefs when she grows up to perform her first anti-gay hate crime, even though her little bible says in I John 3:15, "Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer, and we know that no murderer has fellowship in the light[saved], but is still in darkness[lost]". That's why Jesus said about teaching children to sin, "It will be better for someone to have a millstone tied around their neck, and to be cast into the sea, than it will be for that person that has taught any one of these, the least of my children, to sin against Me."
If you keep reading that chapter in I John, you'll come to this passage:
"For if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and knows all things...Beloved, if our hearts condemn us not, then we have confidence before God." vs. 20-21
Another word for "heart" is the conscience. John is showing us in this passage that we are kept in God's will by God Himself through the Holy Spirit writing the scriptures upon our consciences. If we make the wrong decision, our "Holy Spirit-aligned" consciences will prick us, and will keep on pricking us, until we go back and do the right thing, for the right reason: to love God BY loving one another.
God is absolutely sovereign over EVERYTHING, including death and disease. Which brings us to the question: If God is so powerful, and is so loving...then why does he let these bad things happen? There are many reasons:
1) Punishment for evil. Yes, God has the absolute right to slay his own creations, including US. Look at the firstborn of Egypt being slain to free the Hebrews. While it may seem cruel for God to kill all of these Egyptian children, just remember that these children were going to grow up to be just like their parents: cruel enslavers of the Hebrew children. I'm quite sure that the Lord welcomed back all of the souls of the Egyptian children that were killed. And, after all, Moses DID warn Pharaoh of what would happen if he wouldn't free GOD'S children. God loves all of his children...but self-defense from evil is STILL self-defense. What would YOU do if you saw a known child murderer (which the Egyptians were) coming after YOUR kid?
2) Natural consequences of living in a fallen world. Let's face it: life isn't perfect and neither are WE. Thanks to Adam and Eve's rebellious choice with the serpent all those years ago, we live in VERY human bodies, susceptible to pain, hurting, disease, disorders and death. It may seem bad for God to let that happen, but remember: he gave us FREE WILL. Was he supposed to make mankind as some type of "religious robots", obeying his every command without even questioning as to why? This might be how Satan (and the religious fundamentalists, by the way) might have made humans, but it sure wasn't God's way...mainly because it wouldn't be LOVE. And this brings us to the next reason...
3) To make us into the image of Christ. Jesus is the future "plans" of every single child of God. And the main way God "molds" us into the likeness of Christ is through suffering. Read the entire book of Job and rejoice with him when, at the end of his suffering, he says "My ears have HEARD of you...but, at last, I have SEEN you with MY OWN eyes!" Do you think that Job would have grown spiritually to the point of actually SEEING God FACE TO FACE if God hadn't allowed the devil to do such terrible things to him? Look at me: I once saw being gay as a fate worse than death. But through suffering through many nights of prayer and talking with you guys and studying God's word, I now see that this GIFT was the "grain of sand" that the Lord helping this little "oyster" make into a "pearl of great price"! I now feel closer to God than I had ever been!
So you see, while God DOES sometimes cause death and disease, it's all for His glory AND for our "long-term" benefit. Just remember what Jesus said to Peter when he asked Him why the blind man in John 9 was born blind:
"...that the works of God made be made manifest in him..."
To everything, there is a season. And a time to EVERY purpose under heaven. A time to be born...and a time to DIE... A time to KILL...and a time to heal... A time to WEEP...and a time to laugh... A time to MOURN...and a time to dance... A time to get...and a time LOSE... A time to love...and a time to HATE... A time of WAR...and a time of peace...
In the midst of this world that seems sometimes to be full of DEATH and WEEPING and HATRED and WAR...
...let's let God LOVE us, and HEAL us, and make us LAUGH, and teach us to DANCE, and give us PEACE to bring us through it, loving him and loving each other!
Jeffry, As Mama Lisa wrote, what about going into another different angle now: We know that some hear the word and come forth with repentence and baptism while others won't. How do you see the will of God as opposed to the will of man and the devil's will in this area? Why not go into that a little from your views. I personally would enjoy reading some of it as I visit from time to time. May God bless, Tiff PS: You've been a blessing so far. Keep up the good work!
While God would LOVE to have EVERYONE saved, He knew, even before time began, that in giving ALL people and angels free will, there would be some people and angels (Lucifer being the leader of them) that would choose and rebel. They would wind up in hell simply because they have rejected God and his love in Jesus Christ. I have a wallpaper on my computer that I will post here that has a saying on it that best states exactly why a soul winds up lost forever. It says that judgment will come to those, NOT because of any "darkness" that they have created, but because of the Light that they've rejected. But God knew that in order for Him to receive his creation's love and worship, and for it to be real, that creation (angel/human) must be first given the ability to choose. So he created both humans and angels with free will...knowing that in order for people to made right with him AFTER Adam and Eve rebelled into sin that it would cost him his only begotten Son, Jesus. This is how he reconciles his INDIVIDUAL (a.k.a. PERMISSIVE) will for each person ever created, with his PERFECT will for the believer.
It may seem cruel for God to give life to a person that he KNOWS will later reject him forever, but remember this: there's no such thing as "free" love. Love always costs something. It costs me time to spend time with you guys on the net. Why? Because I LOVE you all! It cost Lucifer the highest angelic position in heaven. Why? Because he loves no one but HIMSELF.
And it cost God his only begotten Son. Why? Because HE LOVES YOU so much that he sent Jesus down here to die for our sins and to change our hearts from hard to loving.
Jeffry, Do you think sending his Son for those that will reject him and those who later walk away has anything to do with leaving people without excuse? Sort of like that scripture about "it had been better to never have heard than to trample the precious blood of Jesus underfoot and count it as an unclean thing." You are doing a terriffic job of explaining these things! I'm loving it! Keep up the good work and Word. May God bless, Tiff PS: I am jealous of your way with words. It makes me seem such a person "crude of speech."
Since God speaks to all people, there is no excuse for anyone. God shares his love with everybody, but only those who don't harden their hearts against Him will receive it. When they reject him, God lets them go their own way, letting their self-centered pursuits become their own undoing. This is REALLY what Paul was talking about in Romans 1; the doctrine of reprobation. Heaven is God's choice(ELECTION) for all those that come to receive Jesus and His gift of mercy and a new heart. Hell is our choice(REPROBATION) when we harden our hearts and reject him.
