Religious and Civil Marriage: The Difference

NoMasTomas21088 · Senior Member

Gay Marriage

Krypto · Mighty Morphin Prayer Warrior

I'm all for gay marriage for those that want it! Lots of gays think I'm against it. When I say I don't care to get married, they automatically think I am against it. I am not. I'm for it. I've never felt the need to want to get married, no matter how in love I am. I am just speaking for myself. Much like there are heterosexuals who do not feel like marriage for themselves, I feel the same way.

Of course there is the whole gay divorce legal thing too. I mean you got to take the good with the bad. Not every marriage is honeymoon forever and just wonder how messy gay divorces can get. Just look at heterosexual divorces. They are nightmarish, expensive and hurtful. Gay marriage will not be immune to such things.

I've loved greatly, but in all that time, I have always maintained a seperate everything; bank account, finances, etc. I don't care how much I will be in love, or have been in love in the past. But for me, I'm happy just living together. I'm happy supporting anyone that wants to get married. Just don't be ignorant of the realities of marriage.

Steve

NoMasTomas21088 · Senior Member

*sighs* Just had an argument with my parents. They said they'd sign the petition to put an amendment on gay marriage. I just do not understand them. How is it any different than when whites were segregating blacks in the 50's and 60's?? I'm sorry it is such a big deal to me...I just want to be treated like a human. I am a citizen of this country and should be allowed the same rights as everyone else.

Krypto · Mighty Morphin Prayer Warrior

Let me ask you, how would not being legally married to your partner affect your relationship? You can still have a Holy Union at a gay friendly church.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking as if I am being mean or rude. I am asking out of curiosity. What does it matter that you cannot get married? There will still be love and committment between you and your partner. You can still build a life. You can draw up a living will and assign power of attorney to him.

And out of curiosity, what do you think about other gays that don't really do much to further gay marriage? For example, me.....I'm not against gay marriage. But personally, I don't need to get married. I don't feel compelled to start a petition to support it or go around collecting signatures or become an activist.

I'm pretty much happy as I am now with my boyfriend of 6 years. Yes, we've had our ups and downs. I still love him. But just because we don't want to get legally married doesn't mean we don't love each other.

In fact, I seem to know more gay couples who don't really need to get married and are just happy with the status quo within their lives.

I do believe that one day it will become legal. Who knows when that day will be. But as it is, I don't see enough gays or gay couples really out there pushing for it.

Don't get mad at me, I'm just asking..... cry

Krypto · Mighty Morphin Prayer Warrior

Again, I just want to reiterate that I am in no way attacking or underminding your feelings in this issue. I'm just trying to cover all the bases in a polite manner. That's all.

Steve

NoMasTomas21088 · Senior Member

I'm not asking you to support it, and you are right, many do not want to get married. My partner does not really care...it's just me. It's not just about getting married...but having the right to do it. If it were allowed, it would be different. To me it's about human dignity. I want to be treated as a human. I am not saying people who do not get married don't love each other...but I want to declare my love under God. I want others to know I am serious about my rights. It's not about love, but about people treating me like I'm not a monster. And about unions, I do not want to have to be forced to move to a state where I am allowed to have a union. In Tennessee, a civil union has been banned here as well. Apparently a lot of people do not want my partner and I to have rights like they do. If my state allowed civil unions, I might be less strong on the point of gay marriage...but I'm not even allowed the right of civil union. I am not mad at you and it's fine because we should be allowed to express our opinions. That's why I like this site so much...we can express our opinions and not anger anyone.

Thanks for the input and I do understand your side. It's just me...I want to have a wedding, go all out and stuff, and do the honeymoon thing lol biggrin

Mama Lisa · Sun May 18 6:31 PM, 2008

I think you guys are both missing the point. (But I still love you!!) Gay marriage is not about marriage. It's about gay couples being afforded the same civil rights that straight people are. I can add my husband to my insurance at work, and vice versa. Korey cannot add Alan. (Actually, I think his company allows it but it's very expensive.) They can't file "married filing jointly" on their tax return. If one of them is in the hospital, the other is not considered family and therefore can't even get information. If one of them dies (God forbid), the other can't make decisions regarding the funeral, etc. There are many rights that straight people have and take for granted. The fight for "gay marriage" is really just a fight for civil rights!!! I support it 1000%!!!

evelyn · I'm Papa Bear's Mom!

Lisa said exactly what I think is the reason for "gay marriages". It is not fair for two to buy a house and should one die the other has no say that part of it is his and as in a straight the house in question goes to the spouse, no if ands or buts. There are so many things not covered with gay couples that are just taken for granted in a straight marriage. Really sad to work all your days together and then have nothing in the end. Of the gays I have met they are commited to each other for life as it should be.

Mama Lisa · Sun May 18 7:44 PM, 2008

I found a handout that I got a long time ago, and I retyped it. I couldn't find it on line. It was from the Houston Equal Rights Alliance.

Get the Facts on Marriage

Marriage Matters

Marriage offers many legal benefits and responsibilities that protect families. Here is just a fraction of why marriage matters to those couples who choose to marry.

Religious and Civil Marriage: The Difference

In the U.S., a marriage is only legal with the signing of a marriage license. That is why many couples can go to a judge or any other public official and need not go to a church, synagogue, or mosque. A religious ceremony is secondary and only needed if the couple wishes to have a church ceremony. Churches retain the right to decide for themselves whether to perform or recognize any marriage, just as they already do for every couple. No court decision or legislative enactment can change the basic tenet of religious faith. For example, some religions will not marry someone who has already been divorced, although the person is free to marry civilly.

Marriage Is

A basic civil right as well as a private and public commitment of love and support by adult couples.
In personal terms, marriage is a celebration of love and commitment.
The choice of whether or not to marry is a personal decision.

Yet civil marriage also provides a gateway to over 1,000 federal protections, responsibilities and benefits as well as many more provided by your state. It lets a spouse make decisions about the medical care of a partner who is disabled. It enables the couple to organize their financial affairs as a single unit for economic, tax and insurance purposes.

The Practical

Marriage offers over 1,000 Federal benefits and responsibilities, not including hundreds more offered by every state.

In times of crisis, spouses have hospital visitation rights and can make medical decisions in event of illness or disability of their spouse.
Employers offer spouses sick leave, bereavement leave, access to health insurance and pension.
The law provides certain automatic rights to a persons spouse regardless of whether or not a will exists.

Finances

Financial issues are complex and challenging, no matter the couple. And when home ownership, kids and other assets are a part of the equation, planning for the present and especially the future is even more critical for greater security.

Married couples are permitted to give an unlimited amount of gifts to each other without being taxed.
Many married people are entitled to financial benefits relating to their spouses, such as disability, pension and social security benefits.
When a spouse dies, there is no need to prove ownership of every item in the household for taxable purposes.

Protecting Children

A child who grows up with married parents benefits from the fact that his or her parents relationship is recognized by law and receives legal protections.
Spouses are generally entitled to joint child custody and visitation upon divorce (and bear obligation to pay child support).
The mark of a strong family and healthy children is having parents who are nurturing, caring, and loving. Parents should be judged on their ability to parent, not by their age, race, religion, gender, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity.

Mama Lisa · Sun May 18 7:48 PM, 2008

10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong

1. Being gay is not natural Real Americans always reject unnatural
things like eyeglasses, polyester and air conditioning.

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that
hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy
behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has
legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed
at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites,
and divorce is still illegal.

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were
allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun
marriage would be destroyed.

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay
couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to
marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs
more children.

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight
parents only raise straight children.

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like
ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country.
That's why we have only one religion in America.

9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model
at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents
to raise children.

10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could
never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to
cars, the service -sector economy, or longer life spans.

Krypto · Mighty Morphin Prayer Warrior

Mama Lisa wrote:

They can't file "married filing jointly" on their tax return.

I don't know the advantages or disadvantages of filing jointly as opposed to filing seperatedly. I do know that if one spouse owes taxes, then you both owe taxes. My co-worker who has never had to pay taxes, filed jointly and inherited his wife's back taxes. They ended up taking up his hard earned money in order to pay her taxes because they filed jointly even though he wasn't the one who owed. That's reason enough to never want to file jointly. Now that I would get involved without knowing such things about a person. But pushing for marriage with this as one of the reasons seems rather mute. But that's my opinion. I know a lot of gay couples who would never file jointly at all. Again, its just seems there are more gay couples out there who wouldn't do this than those that would.

Krypto · Mighty Morphin Prayer Warrior

Mama Lisa wrote:

If one of them is in the hospital, the other is not considered family and therefore can't even get information. If one of them dies (God forbid), the other can't make decisions regarding the funeral, etc.

What about drawing up legal papers assigning your partner power of attorney over you? You don't need to get married for that. A simple, legal document will override family intrusion.

Preparing a living will in advance will assure that your wishes will be carried out. Make sure your family knows it, and even though they don't like it, they can't do anything about it.

Just because your married doesn't mean that family won't still impose their will on you. On the same token, just because you assign power of attorney to someone still doesn't mean they won't interfere either.

Mama Lisa · Mon May 19 6:40 AM, 2008

Here is an interesting web site you can check out.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marr_menu.htm#menu

TaterHead · Defender of Truth, Justice and the American GAY!

All I can say is "YAY!"

I was watching "Showbiz Tonight" the night that Ellen DeGeneres announced that she was going to get married and they were interviewing a member of the "Concerned" (another way of saying "IGNORANT") Women of America and she said that gay marriage was just like that cult in Texas that was marrying little girls. I was so mad that I wanted to throw the remote at the TV. It was just like watching those old TV news interviews with racist white Southerners that claimed that letting black kids come to the same school with their white ones would cause them to rape and intermarry with them.

I'm afraid hate is on the rise again...

NoMasTomas21088 · Senior Member

I'm getting excited! New York is recognizing same-sex marriage from other states...so if you got married in another state, then you could live in New York and be legally married. Of course though there are people fighting to have it banned in the high courts. I am still hopeful though that California will be able to still marry gay couples and one day that more states will do this. I hope we can overcome those ridiculous people who think gay couples don't have a right to tax cuts and housing rights for their partners. I want my partner to not have any trouble getting health insurance from whatever hospital I work at and several other things. Anyways, I have some hope

phil_of_va · [Probably] Gother Than Thou

I only ask that they put in safeguards, because down the road you will have people petitioning to have the right to marry their pets, furniture, children, dead people, etc., otherwise.. I NEED A DATE!!!!!!